Town of Charlton
Planning Board Minutes
784 Charlton Road
Charlton, New York 12019
Minutes of Planning Board Meeting – March 17, 2008
Chairman Ray Black called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. at the John W. Taylor Hall.
Present: Ray Black, Chairman, Jay Wilkinson, Constance Wood, Mark Hodgkins, Dawn Szurek, Mike Armer, Mike Channel, Esq., Acting Planning Board Attorney, Susan York, Planning Board clerk and Kimberly Caron, Recording Secretary.
AGENDA MEETING:
Mr. Black stated that there is a quorum of 5 Board members.
Minutes
Mr. Black asked for comments on the draft of the February meeting minutes. Mrs. York previously provided comments via mail. No other comments were presented.
Public Hearings
Mr. Black stated that there are no Public Hearings.
Jones (224-1-1)
Mr. Black stated that the objective is to review the requested information from last meeting. If all of the information is presented, then the Board will be in a position to accept the application as complete and schedule a Public Hearing.
Mr. Black stated that the new maps have been received.
Mr. Black stated that the requested information from last meeting was to contact DEC and delineate the wetlands. Mr. Black stated that the wetlands and the 100-foot setback have been delineated on the drawing. Mr. Black stated that the delineations were based on the New York State Freshwater Wetlands Map Saratoga County Map 21 of 28 and field locations. Mr. Black stated that DEC has not looked at the wetlands. Mr. Black asked the Board if it was the Board’s intention to have a DEC wetlands delineation to move forward.
Mrs. Wood stated that the concern the Board had at the last meeting was about the sensitivity of that area.
Mr. Armer stated that during the conversations at the last meeting the wetlands area was very vague.
Mrs. Wood stated that she spoke to Blue Neils about the wetlands. Mrs. Wood stated that Mr. Neils stated that he was not an authority on vlies and they are a distinct thing. Mrs. Wood stated that Mr. Neils provided her with the telephone number of Casey Holsworth of DEC Region 5. Mrs. Wood stated that she has not yet had the opportunity to contact him. Mrs. Wood stated that Mr. Neils stated that vlies shrink and they swell. Mrs. Wood suggested asking the applicant if they would be amenable to putting a 200-foot buffer to be sure there would be no infringement on the vly.
Mr. Black asked the Board to look at the map. Mr. Black stated that the 840 foot elevation line cuts through the property and encircles the property. Mr. Black stated that the 840-foot also runs into the vly itself. Mr. Black showed on the drawing. Mr. Black stated that this suggests a good portion of the vly is at the same elevation as the outbound reaches of the property itself. Mr. Black stated that if the vly actually filled through the area indicated as 840 feet it would come onto the property to at least that level as well. Mr. Black stated that where the house is located is 10 feet higher than that. Mr. Black stated that it appears to be high enough. Mr. Black stated that with the 100 foot buffer it is somewhere in between the two. Mr. Black stated that with the 200-foot buffer it
would ensure it.
Mrs. Wood stated that she is concerned with future owners.
Mr. Black stated that following the 830-foot elevation line, it appears that the southern boundary of the property is centerline of the creek and that the creek flows through the culvert across Consaul Road. Mr. Black stated that it appears that the area where that can flood is actually lower by 10 feet than an area within the vly itself.
Mr. Black stated that the Board could suggest the 200-foot buffer to the applicant.
Mrs. Wood inquired about the wetlands delineation.
Mr. Black stated that the issue there is going to be if the Board wants to see that delineation clearly then the question becomes does the Board accept it as a preliminary application or wait to get the delineation first. Mr. Black stated that if the Board opts to wait it could take a few months. Mr. Black stated that if the Board accepts the application it puts the matter on a timeline, and then the Board and the applicant would have to agree to extend the time if needed.
Ms. Szurek stated that she is uncomfortable not having the delineation. Ms. Szurek stated that wetlands are usually an issue with most applications.
Mr. Black stated that the perc tests pits and the information are on the map. Mr. Black stated that the perc test results done in August of 2007 were good numbers. Mr. Black stated that the curb cut note has been added to the drawing. Mr. Black stated that the location of the well has been added. Mr. Black stated that the contour lines have been added with the buffer setbacks.
Kilichowski/Metz (237-1-1.1)
Mr. Black stated that the objective is to review the requested information from last meeting. If all of the information is presented, then the Board will be in a position to accept the application as complete and schedule a Public Hearing.
Mr. Black stated that the new drawing has been received.
Mrs. York stated that the surveyor forgot to sign them.
Mr. Kilichowski presented a signed drawing for the Board to review.
Mr. Black stated that the standard notes have been added and the driveway note has been added. Mr. Black stated that the wetlands buffer has been added. Mr. Black stated that the Landis Farm has been added to the AG Data Statement.
Mrs. Wood stated that Lot 2B has a statement on it which says, “open field actively farmed”. Mrs. Wood inquired who was farming that land.
Mr. Kilichowski stated that he was not actively farming but that he was planting there.
Mr. Black stated that the soil data and soil boring information was added to the map but there was no pert test pit information added. Mr. Black stated that the perc test information would need to be added.
Mrs. Wood stated that the soil data was done in 1996.
Aabo (247-1-24.11)
Mr. Black stated that the objective is to review the requested information from last meeting. If all of the information is presented, then the Board will be in a position to accept the application as complete and schedule a Public Hearing.
Mr. Black stated that new drawings have been received. Mr. Black stated that the standard notes have been corrected to read as Charlton’s standard notes. Mr. Black stated that the well location has been added. Mr. Black stated that he received a letter regarding the perc test data with the test pit information. Mr. Black stated that the information would need to be added to the drawing. Mr. Black stated that there is also a proposed septic location. Mr. Black stated that a scale has been added to the drawing. Mr. Black stated that the AG Data Statement has also been corrected to add LaRue.
Heflin/Durst (255-1-40.1, 41, 43.1, 43.2, 43.3)
Mr. Black stated that this is a placeholder as this matter is on hold.
Lot Line Change
Flynn/Hayes (237-1-49.21 & 237-1-50)
Mr. Black stated that it looks like the applicants are trying to correct some setback requirements. Mr. Black stated that the Board needs an explanation of what transpired to create it. Mr. Black stated that it looks like readjusting a lot line to allow the proper setbacks and it is an even trade.
Mrs. York stated that the deeds are missing from the application and the affidavit from Mr. Flynn to speak for Mr. Hayes is missing.
Mr. Black stated that once all documents are received, the Board could accept the application as a complete preliminary application and waive the Public Hearing and fees.
Pre-Application Conference
Grabo/Davidson
Mr. Black stated that he has spoken to Mr. Grabo about a pre-application conference. Mr. Black stated that the application would call for the Davidson’s to buy additional property for another building lot. Mr. Black stated that the objective of the conference is to review what they are planning and provide some feedback.
Reports
Mr. Black stated that there would be standard reports.
Correspondence
Mr. Black stated that all Board members should have received a copy of the Charlton Stormwater Law.
Mr. Black stated that the Town’s website is in need of being reviewed monthly to make sure the information is current. Mr. Black asked Mrs. York to review the website monthly.
Mrs. York stated that she does so already and will continue to do so.
The meeting was closed at 7:30 p.m.
BUSINESS MEETING
Opened at 7:31 p.m. with the Pledge of Allegiance.
Minutes
Mrs. Wood made the motion to approve the draft of the February 18, 2008 minutes with changes incorporated. Ms. Szurek seconded the motion. All were in favor. Mr. Black abstained from the vote.
Jones (224-1-1)
Edward and Thomas Jones appeared before the Board.
Edward Jones stated that he heard the Board discussing the high water mark. Mr. Jones stated that the high water mark is labeled as such because it is at the high water mark now because if they took out the beaver dam it would drop at least 4 feet.
Mr. Black asked Mr. Jones to show the beaver dam on the drawing.
Mr. Black stated that the Board feels this is an issue because as the vly varies…
Mr. Jones stated that the water would go down not higher. Mr. Jones stated that the watermark now is at the highest it has ever been.
Mr. Black stated that the Board’s interest is in the vly. Mr. Black stated that the Board is not familiar with the rules for vlies. Mr. Black stated that the Board is trying to research vlies. Mr. Black stated that if the Board were to impose during this process, an increase in the setback for a buffer region to 200 feet versus the 100 feet would the applicants be willing to do that.
Thomas Jones stated that his only concern is if they establish the 200-foot buffer and something happens where the vly raises another 5 feet, would the Board then want the septic system moved.
Mr. Black stated no, the reason for the increase is because the Board is not 100 percent sure that it might not rise 5 feet and that gives the additional buffer. Mr. Black stated that the Board would like to do some more research to understand the provisions for vlies.
Thomas Jones stated that he has spoken to Casey Holsworth and the wetlands delineation is scheduled for March 26th of the entire property as it stands now. Mr. Jones stated that Mr. Holsworth stated that the 100-foot buffer is standard.
Mr. Black asked Mr. Jones to get a write up from Mr. Holsworth for the April meeting.
Mr. Jones stated that Mr. Holsworth stated that he would put the information on a map and mail it to the Board.
Mr. Black stated that the Board would feel more comfortable to wait to start the process until the wetlands delineation is received. Mr. Black stated that if the Board accepts the application now and schedules a Public Hearing, but the information is not before the Board, there would be a hold up anyway.
Thomas Jones stated that the builder wanted to start in May.
Mr. Black stated that the Board does have adequate information to accept the application as preliminary and schedule the Public Hearing. Mr. Black explained the timeclock of 62 days from the Public Hearing the Board has to act. Mr. Black stated that the applicants and the Board could agree to an extension if needed.
Mrs. Wood inquired as to the applicants feeling on the 200-foot buffer.
Thomas Jones stated that it didn’t really matter to him because he does not plan to build there.
Mr. Black stated that Mrs. Wood would speak to Mr. Holsworth and the Board can get his opinion in writing.
Mr. Black made the motion to accept this application as a complete preliminary application and authorize Mrs. York to send this application to the County, the Town Engineer and the Town of Galway. Mr. Hodgkins seconded the motion. All were in favor.
Mr. Black made the motion to designate the Planning Board as lead agency for the purposes of SEQRA. Mrs. Wood seconded the motion. All were in favor.
Mr. Black stated that the Public Hearing would be scheduled for April 21, 2008 at 7:45 p.m.
Mr. Channel will get the notice published.
Mrs. York will mail out the referrals to the County, the Town Engineer and the Town of Galway.
Mr. LaFountain informed the applicants that they would need to have an engineered septic system drawn up for the Town engineer to review.
Thomas Jones stated that the engineer that performed the perc testes would be drawing up the septic system.
Mr. Black stated that it would need to be reviewed before approval.
Mrs. York provided Mr. Jones with the Public Hearing notification cards.
Mr. Black explained the Public Hearing process.
Kilichowski/Metz (237-1-1.1)
Mr. and Mrs. Kilichowski and Mrs. Metz appeared before the Board.
Mr. Wilkinson stated that the applicants provided all of the information the Board requested with the exception of the perc test data. Mr. Wilkinson stated that the drawing only contained soil borings.
Mr. Black asked Mr. LaFountain if he saw any issues with the percolation tests and if there was any problem with accepting the information as preliminary.
Mr. LaFountain stated not as preliminary but he cannot tell from soil data if there are any issues, he needs to see perc test data.
Mr. Black told the applicants that the perc test data is required before final approval.
Mr. Kilichowski stated that John Gay will be performing the perc test.
The Board discussed “passing” capacity on long driveways.
Mr. LaFountain stated that there is not a requirement for passing and what is on the drawing meets the requirements.
Mr. Black made the motion to accept the application as a complete preliminary application. Ms. Szurek seconded the motion. All were in favor.
Mrs. York will send the application to the County and the Town engineer for review.
Mr. Black made the motion to designate the Planning Board as lead agency for the purposes of SEQRA. Mrs. Wood seconded the motion. All were in favor.
Mr. Black scheduled the Public Hearing for April 21st, 2008 at 8:00 p.m.
Mr. Channel will get the notice published.
Mrs. York provided the applicants with the Public Hearing notification cards.
Mr. Black explained the Public Hearing process.
Mr. Wilkinson inquired if the Board should forward the application to the Fire Department.
Mrs. York will also forward the application to the Harmony Corners Fire Department for informational purposes.
Aabo (247-1-24.11)
Torben Aabo appeared before the Board.
Mr. Black stated that all of the information requested at the last meeting has been provided. Mr. Black asked Mr. Aabo to have the perc test data added to the drawing before final approval.
Mr. Aabo stated that the second page of the letter with the perc test information discusses the septic system. Mr. Aabo stated that it has been drawn on the map.
Mr. Black asked Mr. LaFountain if he saw any issues.
Mr. LaFountain stated no.
Mr. Black made the motion to accept the application as a complete preliminary application. Mr. Wilkinson seconded the motion. All were in favor.
Mr. Black made the motion to designate the Planning Board as lead agency for the purposes of SEQRA. Mr. Wilkinson seconded the motion. All were in favor.
Mr. Black scheduled the Pubic Hearing for April 21st, 2008 at 8:15 p.m.
Mrs. York provided the Public Hearing notification cards.
Mr. Channel will have the notice published.
Mr. Aabo inquired if he could work on the driveway.
Mr. Black indicated that he may start driveway construction in advance of approval and there is no objection by any of the Board members. Mr. Black stated that Mr. Aabo has been informed that he has to notify the County for a permit to do so.
Heflin/Durst (255-1-40.1,41,43.1,43.2,43.3)
No one representing this matter appeared.
Mr. Black stated that there has been no action and this is a placeholder.
Lot Line Change
Flynn/Hayes (237-1-49.21 & 237-1-50)
Gerald Flynn and Joseph Hayes appeared before the Board.
Mr. Flynn showed where the line they want adjusted was located.
Mr. Black inquired as to what happened to get the two pieces of property in this condition. Mr. Black stated that it looks like the plan is to get the appropriate setbacks on each lot.
Mr. Flynn stated that the plan is to give Mr. Hayes a complete lot.
Mr. Hayes stated that he would like the land that was cleared for the construction of a garage put back on his property.
Mr. Flynn stated that the setbacks were an issue before the land was purchased.
Mr. Flynn showed the Board the locations of the driveway and the garage on the drawing.
The Board reviewed the drawings.
Mr. Black stated that for the purposes of filing tax maps, Mr. Hayes lot has a good drawing but Mr. Flynn’s lot is not completely shown. Mr. Black stated that the drawing presented needs to show both lots complete, and then the change, in order to be filed at the County.
Mr. Black stated that once the revised drawings are received, the Board could waive the fees, the Public Hearing and the engineering review. Mr. Black stated that then the Board would make sure that the paperwork is correct and then the Board can approve.
Mrs. York stated that the file needs a copy of the signed legal deeds for each parcel.
Mr. Flynn provided a copy of his deed and Mr. Hayes provided a copy of his deed.
Mrs. York made copies of the deeds and distributed them to Mr. Channel, Esq. and Mr. Black.
Mr. Black stated that the Board can put this matter on the agenda for next months meeting and can act on the application next month. Mr. Black stated the new drawing would need to be provided to Mrs. York with 11 copies. Mr. Black stated that one copy would be forwarded to the County for their review. Mr. Black stated that the Board should be able to approve this application in May. Mr. Black asked the applicants to also include the Right to Farm Law on the drawings. Mr. Black provided a copy of the language and explained why it was required.
There were some discussions on adding a scale to the drawing or adding the dimensions to the drawing. There were also discussions on the size of the drawing the Board required.
The Board agreed that the size of the drawing met requirements but in order to include both lots on one drawing it would need to be expanded a little. The Board also agreed to accept the dimensions on the drawing instead of having a scale added to the drawing.
Mr. Black asked Mrs. York to make a copy of the pages from the Subdivision Regulations that define the requirements for the drawing. Mrs. York made copies of pages 12-17 for Mr. Flynn, Mr. Hayes and Mr. Channel, Esq.
Mr. Black reviewed what was needed for the next meeting:
-addition of the RTF note on the drawing;
-expand the drawing to include both lots;
-11 copies of the drawing;
-have surveyor review the regulations of the drawings;
-add signature block;
-scale on the drawing or all dimensions on the drawing; and
-site location map.
Mr. Flynn and Mr. Hayes both stated that they were unsure if they would be able to attend the next meeting.
Mr. Black stated that both applicants can sign an affidavit authorizing each other to speak on their behalf or they can send the surveyor.
Pre-Application Conference
Grabo/Davidson
Mrs. Davidson appeared before the Board. Mrs. Davidson provided proposed drawings for the Board to review.
The Board reviewed the drawings.
Mrs. Davidson explained the drawings and where her property was located and where the property she would be purchasing and subdividing was located.
Mrs. Davidson stated that what Mr. Grabo is offering her would encompass his driveway. Mrs. Davidson stated that there is also a creek located there. Mrs. Davidson stated that Mr. Grabo would need DEC to approve a wetland crossing to relocate his driveway. Mrs. Davidson stated that there is an old barn and house that are located there that are not livable and some old cars. Mrs. Davidson showed where Mr. Grabo wanted to keep access to go into the property.
Mr. LaFountain inquired as to the frontage
Mrs. Davidson stated 415 feet.
Mr. Black stated that the map says 483 feet, and if they take 200 feet for one parcel that leaves 283 feet for another parcel.
Mr. Armer stated that there is only 395 feet of frontage.
Mr. Black stated that if it is less than 400 feet, then the applicant would have to go before the ZBA. Mr. Black asked Mrs. Davidson what her plan for the property was.
Mrs. Davidson stated that she would like to get two building lots back in here using this as the driveway. Mrs. Davidson stated that the lots would be 3-5 acres. Mrs. Davidson stated that if there was 120 feet it would be 60 feet and 60 feet. Mrs. Davidson stated that the rest would just be lot lines and make this a big lot line and this a bigger lot line.
Mr. Black stated that the Board worries about the relationship of houses when you try to stack them. Mr. Black stated that the Board wants to see houses far enough away from each other to maintain privacy. Mr. Black stated that it is a 21-acre building lot that has to meet all of the subdivision requirements. Mr. Black stated that the barn may have to be removed. Mr. Black gave suggestions of where to put the lines. Mr. Black stated that it would need to go to ZBA for 60 feet of frontage. Mr. Black stated that ZBA may be willing to approve that for a single building lot on a large parcel. Mr. Black stated that for the ZBA to consider with 2 separate building lots and 2 separate 60-foot frontage approvals it may be stretching the norm.
Mr. Black suggested a single lot which would require ZBA approval as referred by the Planning Board and bring line back so that the barn stays with the property and plan to put a house here. Mr. Black stated that this presents the long driveway situation, which has specific requirements.
The Board and the applicant discussed Mr. Black’s suggestion.
Mr. Black stated that a rational plan would be for a single-family house, leave the driveway as is, and leave the buildings that exist with the original farm and remainder of property. Mr. Black suggested seeking to reduce the frontage from 100 feet to 60 feet and move the lot line keeping the buildings in tact. Mr. Black suggested creating a drawing using this suggestion and go before the ZBA with an application. Mr. Black stated that if the ZBA grants approval, then the Planning Board can go through the subdivision process.
The Board agreed with Mr. Black’s suggestion.
Zoning Administrator Report
Mr. LaFountain provided the report for February 2008 and reviewed it with the Board.
Correspondence
Mr. Black stated that each Board member has received a copy of the Storm Water Management Law.
Mr. Black stated that Mrs. York will maintain the Planning Board information on the website on a monthly basis.
Town Board Liaison
Mrs. Verola was not present.
Before Adjournment, the Board entered into Executive Session to discuss the Article 78 Lawsuit.
Mr. Black made the motion to adjourn the meeting. Mr. Wilkinson seconded the motion. All were in favor.
The meeting was adjourned at 9:50 p.m.
Respectfully Submitted,
Kimberly A. Caron
Recording Secretary
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